G2M V3 connection issues

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G2M V3 connection issues

Postby rcortesim » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:53 pm

After reading similar issues posted by others, I still feel a need to post, as my situation is somewhat different. The G2M works (sort of) in one software, but not others. Here's my situation.

I just received a G2M V3 so that I can use it to transcribe bass parts via various softward, like Protools, Sibelius and ScoreCloud.

In Protools, it's not moving the input LEDs at all, and Sibellius doesn't show it in the list of devices.

Odd thing is that I am able to connect to ScoreCloud, but the bass doesn't track well. There is latency, pitch issues, and even though I play in a high octave, the notes are well below the bass cleff staff.

There are youtube videos of a bass tracking very well, so I'm thinking it could be the signal chain. Here is how I'm connecting.

Protools (Mac) - Doesn't register a signal at all, even when I duplicate a working midi track.
G2M midi out to Axiom midi in.
Axiom midi out to protools midi in.

Sibelius (Mac) - The configuration lists the Axiom, and will recognize input from the keyboard. However, when I connect the G2M, it no longer recieves a signal.
G2M midi out to Axiom midi in.
Axiom midi out to USB in.

ScoreCloud (PC) - As mentioned above this registers a signal, but has its problems.
G2M midi out to M-Audio Axiom 61 midi in.
Axiom USB out to PC USB in.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby james » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:16 pm

Software can't directly recognise the G2M. The software will only see whatever MIDI interface you are using (the Axiom).

If you use a MIDI keyboard and this works, connecting the G2M instead of the keyboard should also work. If this isn't check the MIDI channel that the G2M is using to send MIDI (DIP switches inside the battery compartment). By default this is MIDI channel 1. Perhaps the software is set to ignore some channels?

Don't set your software for "MIDI Guitar" because this will assume each string is on a separate MIDI channel. The G2M has no way to know which strings you are playing, only notes, so it sends all notes on the same MIDI channel. However, if you do this, it should still work, you just get all notes appearing on the same string (MIDI channel 1 = string 1, MIDI channel 2 = string 2, etc).

For latency, watch the LED on the G2M. This flashes at exactly the same time MIDI is sent. If this is flashing, the G2M must be sending MIDI, so you can use this when checking if MIDI is being received (because you know it is being sent).
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby rcortesim » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:05 pm

Protools now hearing bass, and I can track it using an instrument plugin. However, the latency is still a problem, and when I output to Sibelius, the first note isn't on the 1, but on the upbeat of 2.

Also, tracking is really jumpy. As an example, let's say I play a pattern in G. Even if I play it at the 12th fret of the G-string, it will often send a tone that is an octave BELOW the low G on the E-string.

While this is a problem, I can edit the note to raise its octave to the proper place on the staff, but having the downbeat start on the upbeat of 2 is not acceptable. Even if I shift the start to downbeat of one, it will still deviate as the song progresses.

Add to these issues that it really throws off focus, when a sudden unexpected note is presented, rather than the one that was played.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby rcortesim » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:16 am

I should also add that I have read through many related threads and have checked the midi led lighting up, which doesn't seem to delay from the moment I pluck a string. I read about jiggling the midi cable at the G2M connector, which I will do as soon as I am at the DAW again. As far as the midi cable, itself, is concerned, I use the same one coming out of my Axiom 61. It tracks perfectly and creates a score that has no deviations from time.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby rcortesim » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:02 pm

Last night, I jiggled the connection on the G2M, but it didn't seem loose, nor did it change anything.

As mentioned, the Midi LED lights, but could I really tell whether it is a millisecond slow to react? I don't know. It flashes rapidly, rather than a solid on, so that only tells me that a signal is being received at the input.

I've tried several several basses - Jazz bass, P bass, MTD - played with many different settings - tone down, tone up, plucked near neck, but none of this helps. I even played the bass part on a Strat. Though it replicated the pitch a bit more accurately, the transcription in Score Editor was no better.

While I have played nothing more busy than 8th-notes, the midi sends crazy 16th-note patterns. Is this to be expected? Am I now required to take this into Sibelius and fine tune edit? If that's the case, I'd sooner write it manually in Sibelius and be done with it.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby james » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:03 pm

The MIDI connection sounds like it is working correctly (no need to jiggle the connector, and the MIDI cable clearly works).

What tempo are you playing at? I don't know how fast an 8th note is without a tempo.

Are you using Chromatic mode on the G2M? Fewer MIDI messages will be sent in chromatic mode (no pitch-bend), but more importantly, Sibelius won't recognise the pitch-bend messages so you may get wrong notes recorded. For example, if you play a note, it's possible the G2M could initially detect it as a semitone high then use pitch-bend to bend the note back to the correct pitch. You won't hear this if playing a synth, but for notation it will be recorded as the first (wrong) note only. This happens because the string stretches when you pluck it so notes always start sharp then settle to the tuned note.

If you enable chromatic mode, the G2M won't send pitch-bend. Sometimes it can give a double-note at the start if plucking causes the start of the note to be too sharp. Usually this only happens if the bass is out of tune, the intonation is off, or you pluck notes hard. So, make sure you are well-tuned, and don't play too hard to keep the notes as in-tune as possible.

This FAQ video shows guitar, but it also applies (even more so) to bass: https://youtu.be/0YGMZs72Gmk. The most important thing is to damp the strings that aren't playing, and to damp the string that is playing at the end of a note. If you leave a string vibrating and play another note, this can sometimes make the G2M think the note is an octave lower than it is. The reason for this is that the true fundamental of the note doesn't always appear during the initial attack of the note (particularly if plucking at the bridge), so the G2M will try to work out the true fundamental even if it's very weak. Playing 2 strings at once can make the G2M think the harmonic structure of the note is different, and often lower that what you played. This very much depends on which notes you play.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby rcortesim » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:03 pm

James,

Thanks for your suggestions, but I've tried all those things already, e.g., chromatic setting, tuning, dampened strings, etc. I do a lot of studio work, so am certain that intonation is spot on, no string buzz, fluctuating input levels, etc. The tempo is only 107.

I doesn't seem to be broken, but maybe it isn't the genuine article. Have you had any reports of other companies making an imposter?

If that's a possibility, then I'd be willing to exchange for another that is the genuine article. Otherwise, I'll have to send it back to the store for a refund.
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Re: G2M V3 connection issues

Postby james » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 am

We have never heard of fake versions, so I do not expect it to be a fake.

It could be faulty, though this is very rare. We have seen one G2M that had a power-supply problem and performance on batteries was different to performance with a DC power supply. It may certainly be worth trying both ways to see if it makes a difference.

There will always be latency with MIDI - there's no way around that. But it should be low enough to not be a problem (except the lowest notes will always take much longer). Similarly, playing style can make a big difference, but it sounds like you have been very careful to play carefully.
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